Sam Beli

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Posts by Sam Beli

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  113

  Please Respond To Survey! 25 more needed please.

  by Big Jim in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it seems like to me the majority of people who are in the truth, are were in the truth was a result of either a family member are a friend witnessing to them and not many seem to have been found in the door to door work.. from my years of associating with the borg i cannot recall many coming in the truth from the door to door work.. how were you sucked in?

  for me it was my aunt who has now even though i am not disfellowshipped decided to write me out of her will to the tune of about $150,000.00 (maybe i should hang around a couple more years)dont think i will.. please respond .

  thanks.

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  Sam Beli

  Born into it (4th generation JW). My kids, I regret to say, are 5th generation JWs. I am the first of my family to leave permanently.

  Sam Beli
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  37

  The Day "Rebellion" Happened in Bethel

  by metatron in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  years ago, during the early 70's, conditions and morale.

  at bethel got pretty bad - a sex ranting knorr,.

  demanding overseers, stupid policies, and brothers.

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  Sam Beli

  Dear metatron,

  I attended a Bethel recruiting session at one of the big Yankee Stadium conventions. I think it was in 1953. Milton Henschel (spelling?) was presiding at this meeting under the stands for those interested in Bethel service. I believe he was Knorr’s secretary at the time.

  I was expecting to hear about a loving family-like arrangement in view of the life long indoctrination I had received as the kid of JW parents. I was shocked to hear what sounded to me like harsh, almost threatening words come out of his mouth. “Bethel is not a place for babies” he said in a harsh tone.

  While I had expected the work to be hard I had expected the atmosphere to be kind and loving. The harsh tone in his voice caused me to cancel any ambitions about going to Bethel.

  Regards,

  Sam Beli
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  31

  Subtle Propaganda at DC -but Noticeable To Us

  by Had Enough in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as ive mentioned in other posts, i felt obligated to go to the dc (in hamilton) this weekend to help my family with my aging mom, who in my opinion just goes for the social outing because she is physically not able to stay awake for more that 1/5 th of the whole sessions except intermissions.. i know others have posted their observations of the dc they attended but id like to make an addition from things that just jumped right out at me and made me go argggghhhhh!.

  and btw....i felt some of the comments made seemed to be as though they were answering their justification of some of the things being brought out on the internet, including here.. on friday, even in talks that were not about higher education, they managed to slip in their subtle propaganda, as in:.

  - bob alton, said peter and john were outspoken about gods word and were unlettered and ordinary men they didnt need higher education to speak wondrous things of god.

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  Sam Beli

  Hello All,

  While I sympathize with what you are saying here and agree that the language is loaded, I’m not so sure that they are responding to what goes on here or elsewhere on the net (Let’s not think too much of ourselves).

  The DA language sounds to me much like the language I heard as a boy and young adult 50 and more years ago. They were knocking college professors then for their lack of respect for the Bible, for their teaching of evolution, for their reliance on science to give them answers to questions/problems facing society.

  Much of it sounds like same ol’ same ol’ to me rather than a response to the efforts here, especially about higher education. That has been a sore spot with them for decades.

  Regards,

  Sam Beli
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  17

  A fine example of JW honesty & integrety

  by 68storm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested in how many of you reading this db, have experienced, or heard of other people having experienced this wonderful trait among god's chosen people.. 41/2 years ago, my jw wife of 25 years, secrectly planned an escape from the marriage, with the help of her spiritual brothers and sisters.

  we were having some problems at the time.

  for the previous 6 years we would spend our xmas vacation in florida.

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  Sam Beli

  Dear Storm:

  I had experiences that paralleled yours in some respects. Here are some of the highlights:

  1. Married a “born into the truth” JW who pioneered right out of high school and through the first year of marriage. I was also a “born into the truth” JW.
  2. Had two children along the way
  3. Wife decides to leave the marriage at about year nineteen while children are in middle school/high school.
  4. She moves out taking part of her clothing and gets her own apartment and invites her new boy-friend over frequently.
  5. She writes a letter to one of the elders and explains that she has committed adultery (she had already told me of this offence).
  6. She calls me after each “Thursday Night Meeting” asking if she has been disfellowshipped yet. The answer was no for several weeks as the elders delayed doing anything.
  7. I was an elder at the time, but for obvious reasons I wished no part of this matter. However, after weeks of inaction, I asked the elders what they intended to do about the situation in view of her blatant adultery (she was a popular and well known member of the congregation and this situation was well known).
  8. A long standing and very influential elder to whom I had gone for private help about this matter said: “Well, what ever you did to her, it couldn’t have been bad enough to warrant this kind of conduct.” That was the most consoling comment I got from any of my fellow elders during this, the most difficult time of my life.
  9. After further pleadings from me to address the issue the “body” disfellowshipped her.
  10. She moved home to mommy.
  11. Three months later she returned with mommy to tell the elders that she was sorry and they reinstated her.
  12. I was stupid enough to accept her back into the family and so she moved back into our home. All seemed well for two weeks except for one elder who wanted a big party for her upon her return. I objected, saying that what had happened was tragic and sad. I asked for a very low-key return because what had happened over the preceding six months was really tragic, no cause for celebration. The party went on anyway. The young elder sponsoring the party claimed to be of the anointed and his word got extra special weight.
  13. She seemed to do well for two weeks, keeping all of her promises.
  14. At the third week marker of her return she came back from the grocery store to tell me that she had run into her “lover” in the parking lot and she had stopped to talk with him for a while. I blew my top. This was in direct violation of our agreement.
  15. From that point forward I gave her the cold shoulder. Some elders came over and attempted to reconcile our differences, but my wife refused to give guarantees that she would not stop and talk to this guy anymore.
  16. We stopped having sex and my wife claimed cruelty on my part for not having sex with her, though sex had never been important to her before. Her mommy came back and claimed that her CO said that her daughter could “scripturally divorce" me since I would not give her the “marriage due.”
  17. The elders met with my wife and her mother (they invited me to this Tuesday meeting, but I said that I could not be prepared until Saturday and I asked them to postpone it till Saturday. They refused to delay the meeting) and the elders told my wife that she was free to divorce me and that she would be free to remarry.
  18. I heard of the above decision from my wife, not from my fellow elders. I told her that the decision sounded flawed, but she had the answer she wanted and she moved full steam ahead by filing legal divorce proceedings.
  19. Saturday the elders met with me. Only then did they tell me of their decision. They confirmed that they had told her that she was free to divorce me and then to remarry. I asked them if I was then free to remarry also. They hesitated, it seemed as if they had not thought about that issue. Their answer, after a little hesitation, was no, I was not free to remarry (remember, she was the one who had committed adultery earlier, not me; I had merely withheld sex after she began to engage in conversations with her former lover again).
  20. Some letters went to Brooklyn. To their credit, they told the locals that their decision was wrong and that she was not free to remarry.
  21. She had already moved out and played on the sympathies of the elders (who were still in her corner) saying that she was poor and needed some material things. The elders tell me to provide for her. My first response was that she had plenty of material comforts at home, but she chose to leave those behind and I didn’t feel any obligation to set up a second home just for her because she wanted to leave. I soon softened and told them that I would see that she got a bed to sleep in (that seemed to be the thing most on their minds at that point).
  22. I went to a reputable department store downtown and selected a modest priced bed. When I called her to set up a time for delivery she began to fuss about some minor detail, that I have long ago forgotten, about the bed. I said, that is it! I cancelled the order and told the elders that she was incorrigible and not to bother me with anymore of her winning.
  23. Initially her demands through her lawyer for the material division of our “worldly goods” were modest. Then one day somebody got the idea that such decisions should be done by the elders. One elder told me that they would need to have a meeting at our home with my wife and me to assign each item to her or to me. Of course, I told him that while he might like to do that for her she had already placed the matter in the hands of the legal system and that I didn’t think that the courts would recognize their decisions on such issues. That didn’t seem to get through, just as little other common sense issues got through to these elders, so another phone call to Brooklyn to call off these dogs.
  24. Getting to the part that has some similarity to what happened to you, after all had been agreed to ( we lived in a “no-fault divorce” state where all is divided 50/50) she asked to come over on a Sunday afternoon to get her 50%. This was her strategy:
  a. Get about fifteen volunteers after the meeting Sunday morning to go home and change into work clothes and return at 1 PM to my house.
  b. Teenage boys can carry the heavy stuff and girls can get the lighter stuff.
  c. Blitz the house, going in both doors and carry off stuff as fast as possible
  d. Reward all of these helpers with a fine dinner at her place when they have delivered the stuff
  25. A few minutes into the blitz I realized that I needed to get more control of the situation, so I locked the doors temporarily and assembled the volunteers in the driveway. These “brothers and sisters” some of whom where children of elders had a real party attitude and I thought it was disgraceful. I told them so. I reminded them (I was still sounding like a typical JW elder then) that “Jehovah hates a divorcing.” I reminded them that what was happening here was not pleasing to Jehovah, but if they wanted to participate anyway that was their choice. However, I asked them to remember that their conduct and what was happening here was a terrible “witness” to the neighborhood. They were much quieter after my lecture.
  26. My dear fellow elders also found a reason to get read of me as an elder. They read the “he no longer serves as an elder” letter to the congregation, but never did tell me about it.
  27. Some of those elders are dead now, some have since gone through their own divorces, but none have ever had the courage to contact me since those dark days many years ago.

  I am now happily married to a lady that I did not find at the KH. I have been inactive for years.

  Regards,

  Sam Beli
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  17

  A fine example of JW honesty & integrety

  by 68storm in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i would be interested in how many of you reading this db, have experienced, or heard of other people having experienced this wonderful trait among god's chosen people.. 41/2 years ago, my jw wife of 25 years, secrectly planned an escape from the marriage, with the help of her spiritual brothers and sisters.

  we were having some problems at the time.

  for the previous 6 years we would spend our xmas vacation in florida.

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  Sam Beli

  If I can find this thread Monday, I'll post my experience like yours then.

  Sam Beli
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  17

  ex-JW life -- Reality vs. Fantasy

  by Seeker in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  what are the lives of ex-jws really like?

  the wts tells jws one thing, but is what they say reality, or fantasy?.

  a common technique used by the wts to express their viewpoint while avoiding the truth of the matter is to focus on the specific and imply that it is the general.. let me explain: do you know of any ex-jws who were disfellowshipped for immorality?

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  Sam Beli

  Seeker, you said: "Welcome to this place. Ain't it nicer than the old H2O?"

  In what way? This place is good, but the old h2O was a pretty fine place to IMHO. There the topics stayed in the same order and it was easier to find them later if one wanted to go back to an old thread. Here they keep jumping around.

  I have not noticed moderator problems here though and that is a pleasure, so far. Anyway, the old H2O was my introduction to free speach after the WTS and it was a very special place for me.

  Just thought I'd stick up for an old friend.

  Regards,

  Sam Beli
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  25

  Hi

  by heff in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have been lurking around here for quite some time now, posted a few short replies, and engaged in a little chat from time to time.

  its almost hard to remember, just a few months back, feeling like i was the only one to live through a jw experience and not be sorry that i am no longer a part of it.

  i am very happy to have found this site.. i would like to better introduce myself as i have seen several others do.. i was born in '78 to a fanatical jw mother and an unbelieving alcholic father.

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  Sam Beli

  Hello Heff,

  You said: I think what sets me apart from most of the people here is that I never made the decision to be a JW. It never seemed like a good idea to me.

  You may be surprised to know that there are a number of us who were essentially “born-into-the-truth.” My parents became JWs when I was an infant, so I never know any other way of life. My dad “talked me into baptism” before I could read very well! I too felt guilty about having doubts and I tried to suppress my doubts and did so for years.

  You are not alone here or on many other sites. Enjoy your new found freedom.

  Regards,

  Sam Beli
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  8

  Measuring Evil

  by Sam Beli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the measurement of evil is the subject of the article at this link; i find the tribal behavior discribed of interest to former jws: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010511/hl/psychiatry_evil_1.html.

  enjoy,.

  sam beli

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  Sam Beli

  Thank you all for the warm welcome. Patio34 asked about the references in my earlier comments. “LE” refers to Lee Elder, formerly known as “The Liberal Elder.” His site contains a fine treatise of the JW blood issue and can be found here:

  http://www.ajwrb.org/

  Dr Muramoto is an excellent human being and a “heavy weight” in the field of neuro-science, neurology and medical ethics. He has authored many articles that have been published in the medical literature, several on the JW blood issue from the ethical prospective. His most recent published article and the many letters to the editor commenting on Muramoto’s article can be read here:

  http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/322/7277/37

  Warm regards to all,

  Sam Beli
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  8

  Measuring Evil

  by Sam Beli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the measurement of evil is the subject of the article at this link; i find the tribal behavior discribed of interest to former jws: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010511/hl/psychiatry_evil_1.html.

  enjoy,.

  sam beli

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  Sam Beli

  Thank you for the welcome, Hippikon. I used to post a little on the old H2O; a JW for parts of six decades, and an elder for a few years. Married a pioneer who, years later would run off with another man (a non JW), quickly drop him and end up getting married a couple more times. The last I knew she was again trying to be a “good” JW.

  I am now married to a wonderful non JW. The blood issue was the “straw” that finally woke me up. Oh, I knew about the 1975 failure. I was an elder during those frantic years and was very disappointed with the WTS’s failure to admit their error and their attempt to blame the “sheep.” I was also painfully aware of the horrific and powerful role that elders could and often did play in ruining the lives of regular JWs. I found that contrary to the claims of the WTS that elders would provide shelter to those “afflicted from the storms of this world,” that the elders often were the storm from which regular JWs needed to escape and find shelter. During my last days as an elder I found it very hard to go to a meeting at he KH. The pressures and hate that I felt as I entered the KH were enormous and I missed many meeting in the end because of the dread that I felt while in the KH.

  Later I struggled to again attend meetings in other parts of the US, but my heart was not in it. Then the blood issue came up and I finally saw the hypocrisy of the WTS’ policy. I am a big “fan” of the “Truth” as exposed on LE’s web site and in Dr Muramoto’s articles. The information that these two and others have provided is very accurate and exactly on target. My family wishes that I had “died faithful” to the WTS’s blood policy, but I am extremely glad and thankful to be alive after ‘waking up” to the horrific, murderous blood policy of the WTS.

  Warm regards to all,

  Sam Beli
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  8

  Measuring Evil

  by Sam Beli in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  the measurement of evil is the subject of the article at this link; i find the tribal behavior discribed of interest to former jws: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010511/hl/psychiatry_evil_1.html.

  enjoy,.

  sam beli

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  Sam Beli

  The measurement of evil is the subject of the article at this link; I find the tribal behavior discribed of interest to former JWs: http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/ap/20010511/hl/psychiatry_evil_1.html

  Enjoy,

  Sam Beli